CommodoreMan
Hello everyone,
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In a moment of recklessness, I’ve gone and bought myself a Thermaphot ACP200 continuous-action developer.
However, I have no experience with continuous-action developers and wanted to ask you whether there’s anything in particular I need to bear in mind, or if you have any top tips?
I’d like to use the unit for black-and-white development to start with.
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It’s a two-bath unit, i.e. developer and fixer. According to Thermaphot, these are sufficiently separated by effective roller compression. Can I trust that?
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I read that the capacity is 2.5 litres. But that seems to me to make the tanks very full. I feel I would have opted for two litres instead. Are the prints still rinsed well enough with that? Or is 2.5 litres absolutely essential? (It could also be that they’ve simply built in a buffer for evaporation to ensure nothing goes wrong during continuous use.
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Can anyone tell me if the unit does anything else apart from running the prints through the chemicals? Is there supposed to be some circulation via pumps or something? There seem to be two openings in the tray for the developer bath. The fixer only has one, which is for the drain hose.
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There was also a loose foam roll in the package. However, I can’t see where it’s supposed to go. A piece of photo paper has already been pulled through it filled with water without any problems. Could it be that the seller didn’t mean for this to be included at all?
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I hope you can give me some advice on this :).
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Regards
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Christian
Bonderer
It would be a good idea to get hold of a manual. Have a look on the Thermaphot website to see if there’s one available as a PDF. It definitely has a circulation pump for the developer, so never let it run dry – not even because of the heater. I’ve got the 252 – a great machine, but one size larger. After ruling out various options, I now have the Rollei 2000 RT for the machine. On the ACP, the speed is adjusted by changing the gears. There are 4–5 speeds available, but I can’t quite remember exactly.
I only use mine for black and white. In any case, use an acid fixer and change the fixer according to the manufacturer’s instructions.
I’ve used every developer less diluted, but they usually only last a few days. A machine developer is better suited for this.
In any case, get hold of a manual; the machines are robust, but doing something wrong can cause significant damage.
Wolf_XL
...the loose roll goes behind the outlet of the developing machine...
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Using a continuous-feed developing machine for black and white actually makes little sense – I usually only do it once a year – for example, when I’m enlarging loads of holiday photos... Otherwise, a machine offers hardly any advantage over conventional tray development for black and white – except perhaps that I don’t have to transfer the positive by hand from one bath to another... A machine like that – I now have four of them – a Thermaphot ACP:200, a Jobo Printlab 3503 and two RCP 20s (one converted to RA4) – really only makes sense for colour... Because that’s the only area where both precise temperature control and a precisely defined dwell time in the developer matter...
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Don’t underestimate the time it takes to clean a machine like this after use – you’d only put yourself through that for a print run of over 100...
Bonderer
For me, there’s nothing better than a machine, partly because I only do black and white prints. The 252 is a very good compromise between size and paper size.
I print either 13×18 or 24×30, and if I want a larger size, I use the extensions. My machine is always ready to go straight away.
CommodoreMan
Hello,
I’ve already found a guide online. I think I’ve got the basics of how it works sorted (I hope, anyway).
It’s just that there are still a few bits I’m unsure about here and there, which the manual doesn’t directly address.
It’s great that there’s another acp200 owner here.
As I mentioned earlier, the developer isn’t circulating in the machine or anything like that, but the developer bath does have two openings. One at the bottom, which is also connected to the drain, and a second one on the rear wall on the operator’s side.
Should the developer normally be circulating in this machine, and should I assume there’s a fault if that isn’t the case?
The second bath only has one opening, so naturally there can be no circulation or anything like that there.
I’m really looking forward to working with the machine, but I also expect it won’t be worth it until I have a fairly extensive session. If only because of the amount of chemicals involved. Who’s going to prepare 2.5 litres of developer just for 10 or 20 prints? After all, it can only be stored for a limited time, especially in the working solution.
I’m quite pleased that the mechanics themselves seem to be in pretty good condition. The rubber rollers have good grip and aren’t hardened or anything.
I just need to replace the switch for the heater, as it no longer works. But that’s no problem for me; I work in the electrical field.
Regards, Christian
CommodoreMan
Apologies for the double post, but I have some news:
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I opened the machine up today. And I found the circulation pump. It was blocked inside by a foreign object. Now that I’ve cleared it out, it’s running perfectly. The mechanics inside still look in very good condition too.
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At the moment, the smallest gear (red) is in the groove. That should mean the machine is already running at its fastest.
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I’ve noticed that the temperature setting for the fixer is only accessible from the inside. What temperature should it be set to roughly for the black-and-white process?
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So, I can slowly start to consider the machine operational. I’ll give it a bit of a clean under the bonnet, and I still need to order/replace the switch.
Let’s see when I’ll have enough time to make it worth the effort to have a proper go at it.
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Regards, Christian
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edit: I just let the machine run for a bit. As a endurance test, so to speak. Now I’m a bit at a loss:
Even when the temperature switch is in the off position (it no longer clicks into place when switched on), the plates are still being heated. When I hold the switch down, the heating indicator light also comes on. I’m not entirely sure whether I’m imagining it or not, but I feel as though the heating elements get warmer when I press the switch, meaning there’s increased heating power. But it could just be my imagination.
Unfortunately, the manual doesn’t say anything about the exact function of this switch. It merely states that you should set it to ‘Temp’ during operation.
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Is this an original function (heating up and maintaining temperature or something like that), or has someone tinkered with it?
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Regards, Christian
Wolf_XL
...the switch is used solely to check whether the machine is currently heating or not. As the device was designed for paint, a red indicator light would pose a risk of confusion. Therefore, the indicator light is switched off using this switch whilst the machine is in operation. According to the manual, the procedure is as follows: switch on the machine and check from time to time using the switch to see if it is still heating up. If the light is off when the switch is pressed, the machine should have heated the baths to the set temperature...
CommodoreMan
Hi,
Thanks for the reply :).
Come to think of it, that makes sense ;).
I’ve got a fairly simple set of instructions here in English. I’ve just read that you’re supposed to switch it on, and once the light goes out, the device is ready for use.
The fix is around 40 degrees, after it’s warmed up. Is that the right temperature, or should it be the same as the developer so I don’t get a sudden temperature difference?
Regards, Christian
Bonderer
For me and the fixer, the temperature is 28°C, with a processing speed of 45 cm/min. Both are temperature-controlled, although the developer’s temperature is maintained more precisely. The temperature of the fixer is less critical. That is why the developer is recirculated, but the fixer is not. As far as I know, all Thermaphot machines have recirculation pumps.
40°C actually seems too high to me for black and white. However, I have never measured the temperature as I bought a newly built machine from Thermaphot,
but it works perfectly. The developer has a shelf life of 6–12 weeks, although it lasts longer if used frequently. It has, after all, been developed and designed for high throughput. The fixing bath needs to be regenerated or replaced after a certain amount of paper has been processed. Fixing bath test strips are helpful but not essential. For 20–25 sheets of 24×30, I replace approx. 500ml of working solution, diluted in the standard 1:4 ratio for the machine. The developer is also 1:4, but with the Rollei I use, there’s no need to regenerate it.
However, machine chemicals are never available in small packs, only in bulk packs. You must never forget that the residue may go off before the chemicals are used up. It’s happened to me before.
Wolf_XL
...I’m testing a fixing bath using potassium iodide – that’s probably the best and cheapest method, isn’t it...?
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http://www.niklas-ruehl.de/blog/fixer-testen
CommodoreMan
Hello,
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In that case, I might need to turn the temperature of the fixer down a bit. It did seem very warm to me, too.
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At the moment, I’ve still got an old can of AGFA paper developer here. It’s ancient, but strangely enough, the stuff still works a treat. Interestingly, though, it doesn’t work with Multigrade.
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For the tray process, I’ve been using ADOX Neuto ECO and Adofix so far. Is a special developer for continuous-feed machines absolutely necessary? After all, the end result is the same as with tray development.
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So far, I’ve always tested the fixer using the cheap method with a film scrap and the settling time. I just keep a list of how many sheets of each paper size have already been fixed. That way, you know roughly when it’s reaching the end.
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Regards, Christian
Bonderer
The set temperature is always for the developer, and that’s what’s regulated. The temperature for the fixer is similar but isn’t regulated, so it’s not quite as precise.
Machine chemistry is quite a special brew. Developers last significantly longer than standard chemicals, and the fixer is acidic, so there’s no need for a stop bath.
Standard chemicals can also be used for practice or occasional use. However, the fixer must be acidic and fast-acting.
I also knew a few photographers who used machine-processed black-and-white film, and they too were constantly amazed at what machine-processed developers are capable of when treated properly. They demand high throughput, and if you don’t have that, you simply have to change them more often. These developers are designed for professional use and are correspondingly powerful. The Rollei chemicals cost fifty quid. That’s not expensive for 2 x 4 litres of chemicals. If it goes off, that’s just the way it is. I’ve had that experience before, and the Ilford equivalent is significantly more expensive. It’s worth it for me because I do everything in black and white in the machine, except 30 x 40. For just the occasional use? The machine works with almost any other chemical; if necessary, adjust the dilution – 1:4 works with almost everything, and if not, then 1:3, but none of it keeps for long.
The higher temperatures do speed up the development process, and that applies to the fixer too, but I’ve never used anything above 30°C.
