Tips for the treatment of baryta paper

TiMo · 2012-08-30T10:04:40+00:00

Die Angaben, wie man Baryt waschen solle, zielen auf eine museumsfeste Qualität, also mehrere Hundert Jahre. Ich habe in meiner Jugend nur mit Baryt gearbeit...

TiMo

So far, I’ve only worked with RC paper. But baryta really does appeal to me. The main reasons I haven’t tried it yet were the large amount of water required for washing and the drying process. But now Polywarmton is just around the corner (right, Mirko ;) ) and I want to get to grips with baryta. There’s a lot to read online, and even more contradictory information. That’s why I’m asking the group here, as I can better assess the recommendations: - What’s the best method for washing to achieve the desired result in a reasonably economical way? - Is air-drying a good idea? I don’t have space for a dryer, not to mention that the prices for second-hand ones here are outrageously high. Thanks and best regards, Tim

gurkensaft

Hi Tim. "Practical" is a bit of a broad term, isn’t it… It also depends a bit on your throughput. If you just want to give it a go at first, there’s no need to invest in anything. Here, you can wash them under running water or in a bowl with plenty of water changes. An intermediate bath with a wetting agent saves water and time. Whether it’s cost-effective… I’ve no idea. Do you perhaps already have a Jobo drum (or one from another manufacturer, a drain pipe, etc.)? You can also rinse by rolling the film in this. It doesn’t matter whether you use a processor or do it by hand on a worktop. If you’re definitely keen to get started, you can always invest later if necessary – luxury accessories :D. In a drum or a washer (you can also make your own if you’re handy). The washer is quite space-saving, as the sheets are usually rinsed standing upright. Drying can also be done on fly screens (then press flat between books or similar with minimal residual moisture), or using the wet tape method (veneer tape). I do the latter on slightly thicker glass panes. You can then stand them upright, loaded, to dry. I always do this for 2–3 pictures and the press stays cold. The finishes are different, though. Pressed against a cloth tends to be more matt, whereas air-drying gives a silkier sheen (which I really like). Regards, Torsten

piu58

The instructions on how to wash baryta paper are designed to ensure museum-quality results, i.e. a lifespan of several hundred years. In my youth, I worked exclusively with baryta paper (PE wasn’t available), and I certainly worked rather sloppily at times. The flaws that become apparent later are fixing errors. These brown and purple spots appear quite quickly, within weeks. After four decades, I haven’t discovered any washing errors, even though I was often careless in that regard. Of course, you don’t produce baryta prints in bulk these days. I rinse individual prints in a bowl, changing the water five times with gradually increasing intervals. I can now look back on 15 years using this method too: no changes whatsoever. Prints intended for sale I rinse to archival standard (half an hour under running water). That is simply good practice.

TiMo

Hello Torsten, Thanks for your reply. So you place the slightly damp paper between two glass plates and weigh down the top one? Hello Uwe, Thanks to you too for your reply. I gather from your reply that “it’s not that bad”. By “fixing error” I assume you mean it wasn’t fixed properly, rather than the fixer not being rinsed out properly. How long does the paper stay in the tray? Thanks and best regards, Tim

piu58

> means it isn’t fixed properly That’s right. The pictures stuck together because of mass production and so on. > How long does the paper stay in the bowl? First, give it a quick rinse – fill the bowl and empty it straight away. Then leave it for 1, 2, 5, 10 and 10 minutes. That’s how I do it.

TR

Do you then place the slightly damp paper between two glass plates and weigh down the top one?

I think it will stick the paper down. That’s exactly how I do it, and in my experience, the tape method is the only way to get the lovely, card-thick baryta paper in sizes from 24x30 cm to lie just as flat as it does straight out of the packet. Getting a truly flat, ‘silky-gloss’, uncut 30x40 baryta print is quite something special. For smaller formats, a press or a ‘fly screen’ will suffice. With larger formats, however, there are always waves at the edges (even in the press), which I’ve never managed to get rid of any other way. I use white adhesive tape and always leave it on the edges as a protective or ‘grip edge’.

TiMo

Hi Uwe, So you don’t use any watering aid. Hi T.R., Thanks for the link. The method sounds good. However, I’d be a bit worried about placing a cloth on top and rolling it over. Is that how you do it too? Of course, I can only find adhesive tape here at exorbitant prices. I’ll probably have to get it sent over from Germany. Thanks to you all Tim PS: In the linked article, I read that baryta paper darkens further as it dries. Is that the case with all paper manufacturers, or does it only apply to the author’s paper?

Gast

As far as I know, the ‘dry-down’ effect occurs with all baryta papers and must be taken into account during the final exposure. For fine prints, I therefore dry a test strip or print with a hairdryer to assess the result beforehand. I no longer use a wetting agent because I now only use an alkaline fixer.

TR

Hi TiMo, I also squeeze the paper using a roller squeegee, as described in the link. This removes quite a lot of water from the thick paper backing, and the photograph ‘clings’ to the drying mat. I actually did sometimes experience small areas of layer loss on my paper – I use Fomabrom – whilst it was wet, because my old roller squeegee slid over it instead of rolling. There are no problems with a cloth. However, I’d try it without one first to see if it works just as well without any issues. To help with the washing, I use a pinch of washing soda in 1 litre of water for 3 minutes, after washing for about 10 minutes. After that, the print goes back into the washing water. Incidentally, I can still dry 13x18 prints quite well in a dry press. You can get such presses very cheaply on eBay. But this format is probably still too small. Regarding the ‘dry-down effect’: I use a small dry press like this for my last, final test strips to keep this darkening under control. With tape-drying, you usually get a rather nice auditory experience when cutting it out: it makes a strange ‘ping’ sound with the first cut. That’s the tension escaping from the material, and you realise what forces have been at work here. This is craftsmanship, after all, and not many people are still able to produce such a high-quality, unique piece by hand. Personally, I also like the surface of “air-dried” glossy baryta paper. It has a shimmering, fine grain. I’m not so keen on high-gloss, and matt paper always looks a bit like printer paper, plus it doesn’t produce a deep black.

gurkensaft

Hi Tim, As T.R. rightly pointed out, I stick the paper onto the glass panel. Where exactly is ‘HERE’ for you? Asia? As I said, I use veneer tape, which is/should be available from specialist joinery suppliers. I’d say that doesn’t matter where “here” is. I’d be careful about leaving the tape on the picture, though (if the picture is “important”). If possible, check with the manufacturer beforehand to find out what adhesive is used, or whether the adhesive contains any additives. I usually cut it off, as I mount the prints anyway or they end up behind glass. I also agree with T.R. that this is the simplest and safest method for large-format prints. And it’s very, very quick too. Regards, Torsten

TiMo

Hi Torsten, I live in Japan and quite a few things – especially in the DIY sector – are either unavailable here or outrageously expensive (I went round eight DIY and car shops just to find something as simple as grease; ended up having to order it online). Finding veneer tape will probably take me a few hours of searching and will certainly cost a fortune – if it’s even available at all. Unfortunately, the same goes for chemicals in their raw form. [size=3]Update: I asked about veneer tape at a joinery shop earlier. They just looked at me as if I were drunk. I’ll probably have to look for watercolour tape or something similar.[/size] Hi T.R., if it makes a *PING* sound, that would worry me. If something was under tension and then released, I’d suspect it’s warped. Well, I’ll see for myself then. Can you give a rough idea of how much it darkens? Half a stop? In any case, I’m looking forward to my first experiments with baryta. I suppose you’d need to allow for considerably more time than with RC paper, though. Thanks also to Mono. I didn’t know that you could skip the wetting agent when using an alcohol-based fixer.

Morte

I didn’t know that you can skip the pre-rinse step when using an alcohol-based fixer.

Not only that. You can also reduce the soaking time by up to half. Have a look here, there’s a more detailed explanation: http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/fotochemie-chemistry/black and white fixer - stop bath BW - stop and fix/rollei rxn fix - neutral - 1 liter bottle You can find out more about the dry-down effect and how to counteract it here: http://www.achtung-analog.de/lab_drydown.html

gurkensaft

Hi Tim, That surprises me, given that Japan has such an ancient tradition of carpentry. But as a consumer, it might be difficult to get hold of. That could well be the case. Then try art supplies. Perhaps there’s something like that in Japan for shoji paper work. They use organic adhesives for that too. The paper is naturally under tension once it’s dry. It shrinks as it dries, which is why it ends up perfectly flat ;) Thanks to Mono & Morte. I’d never really noticed this type of fixative before. Brilliant! You never stop learning. Regards, Torsten

gurkensaft

Addendum Another thought that occurs to me: If you’re handy, you could also build yourself a drying frame, as described, for example, on the Wollstein website: http://www.fotografie-in-schwarz-weiss.de/sw-fotografie/kolumne/141-wollstein43.html In this method, the picture is clamped in place with strips rather than glued. You could also secure the strips using screw clamps or strong clamps. You save on adhesive tape, but clamping takes longer than gluing and can be fiddly depending on the frame’s construction... Regards, Torsten

TiMo

Thanks to everyone for the tips. Does anyone know the dry-down factor for MCC paper? What is the downside of an alcohol-based or neutral fixer? If there isn’t one, there would be no reason to use an acidic one. I read somewhere that orange light is fine for MCC paper. Can anyone confirm this? Best regards, Tim

Gast

As far as I am aware, there are no disadvantages to using an alkaline fixer. If you need to stop the process to the exact second, use an acidic fixer. Otherwise, there is no real reason to use an acidic fixer! If you want to ensure archival stability, shorter fixing times, save on chemicals (hypo-clearing bath) and, above all, save water (shorter rinsing times), use an alkaline fixer. A completely alkaline processing line is already recommended in the ‘Film Developing Cookbook’ as being extremely gentle for both negative and positive processing. The idea that an acid fixer alone would suffice has probably been copied from one source to another for decades! Consequently, almost all books still only mention the acid fixer even today. And during the final wash, you can save resources once again: Do not leave positives soaking for too long: Rinse them in a tray or in the rinse tank; this alone removes most of the fixing salts from the paper and felt, then leave them to stand for 5 minutes each time (osmosis further reduces the fixing content!) and repeat this 4–5 times. The same applies to negative rinsing. Ilford method: 5, 10 and 20 rinses, leaving it to stand for 5 minutes between each!! I’m no chemist, but what I’ve ‘read up on’ has convinced me and this is the only way I do it now! Much better than I can describe: . Good reading on the subject: Film Developing Cookbook Way beyond Monochrome II

TR

[...] saving resources [...] [...] osmosis further reduces the fixative content [...]

In Central Europe, there is certainly no need to conserve drinking water. There is more than enough of it here. You can also clearly observe this osmosis in the water: small bubbles rise from the paper.

piu58

What is the disadvantage of an alkaline/neutral fixer? If there weren’t one, there would be no reason for an acidic one.

All developers work only in an alkaline environment. An acidic fixer stops development, whereas a neutral one does not. So if a sheet of paper containing (still alkaline) developer were to enter the fixer, it would continue to develop there. If you use a neutral fixer, you must ensure that this cannot happen, usually by using a stop bath. However, you can also do without a stop bath and rinse the paper in between instead. In that case, the fixer should be acidic. Rinsing in between has advantages over a stop bath; in particular, you can return the paper to the developer if necessary. I never use a stop bath.

Gast

< In Central Europe, there’s certainly no need to ration drinking water. There’ll be more than enough of it here. > Yeah, right, as if: it’s just like electricity – that doesn’t cost a penny either, it just comes out of the socket. It’s just odd that, like water, it keeps getting more expensive every year!

Gast

Thanks for the tips. ;)

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