Morte
Hello everyone,
This is my first post on this forum. And I’ve already got a question.
I recently developed a colour film (Ektar 100) in Rodinal by mistake, probably because I was overtired. Surprisingly, the film turned out to be perfectly usable after scanning and post-processing. Very fine grain; I really like some of the images.
But when, some time later, I wanted to develop another black-and-white film in the usual way, I noticed that the (semi-transparent) wide-neck bottle in which I keep my fixer was coated on the inside with a blackish-dark grey film. Here’s a brief note on my workflow:
I fix my films using the two-bath method and Adofix. Logically, I keep both baths in separate bottles. The bottle containing the first bath – which was the first to come into contact with the colour film – is perfectly ‘clean’, the bath as clear as water as always. Only the bottle containing the second bath has this dirty coating on the inside. It can be wiped away with a finger, though that’s obviously not a pleasant experience. To be honest, I have no idea what exactly a fixer does to colour film and why this effect only occurred in the second bottle and not in the first fixer bath. Anyway, I’ll of course pour both baths away and make fresh ones to avoid any risk. But, and now to my question:
How do I get the second bottle clean again? How can I remove this film so that it doesn’t contaminate the new fixer right from the start? Does anyone have any advice? I’d really rather not throw the bottle away; it would be a shame to waste the material. And cleaning it with a simple bottle brush doesn’t seem thorough enough to me.
Many thanks for your advice!
Tandemfahren
Hi Morte,
First off, welcome to the forum.
Given that the development worked, it’s not really a miracle.
As for your question: I’d chuck the bottle away; those few pence aren’t going to make the world go round.
If you’re dead set on cleaning it, I’d recommend Fetter Farmer, though the material loss is unlikely to be much less than that of the bottle (especially as we don’t even know if cleaning it will work at all...)
I can’t tell you what that gunk in the fixer is or why it only appears in the second bath. It could be that, in your exhaustion, you’ve also mixed up the two fixer bottles.
Where the devil is it all going...
You write ‘pour the fixer away’; may I assume you’re not just tipping it down the drain?
Best regards, Frank
TR
Unlike paper, it is very easy to check whether film has been properly fixed by observing the clarity of the film. I would therefore not use a two-bath fixing process here; if you do, you can note down the time taken for the film to clear when using a fresh solution, and test both baths before each film development to see if they are still effective within a certain time frame (you can see this, after all). So if I had any deposits in the fixer, I would simply continue to use it after filtering or cleaning it, provided it can still ‘clarify’ the film properly.
Morte
I keep a precise tally of the fixer, and it was already due for a change anyway, so I’m not wasting any chemicals by making a fresh batch. And by the way, the second batch of fixer was still clear; it was just the bottle that had that film on it. Anyway, I think I’ll follow Tandemfahren’s advice and buy a new bottle. It’s not worth going to all that trouble here. It could just be that the problem can be solved simply with alcohol, white spirit or black powder. ;-)
And no, I never pour chemicals down the toilet or down the drain (except for stop bath). I collect them properly and then load them onto my bike...
Thanks for your tips
Morte
bernhardmangelsgmxde
The bottles with Alt-Fix always get a bit of a build-up on them for me too... they’re old demijohns that used to hold distilled water. The white Jobos, on the other hand, don’t... I suppose it depends on the bottle as well.
Tandemfahren
Oh wow, Morte, black powder! That’s bound to work! Carefully fill the bottle to the brim with freshly mixed black powder, gently pack it down, and once it’s ignited, give it all a nice little ‘churn’ with a ‘Bäusili’ :-)
(If you don’t get the reference, you’re probably too young)
On a serious note: a two-bath fixing process is always better, because the fixer can be used more efficiently (meaning less needs to be disposed of) and the fixing result is always completely consistent (because the second bath remains practically brand new until the first bath is replaced).
Regards, Frank
Morte
Emil! ;-) I'll have a go at a joke for a change...
Yeah, I'm just playing it safe with the two-bath fix.
TR
Unlike with paper fixing, there’s really no need to play it safe with a two-bath fixing process when developing film, because the clearing stage provides a clear and reliable indicator that you can simply follow, doesn’t it?
Suppose my fixer is a bit off. In that case, the film will only clear after two minutes instead of 30 seconds. No problem: I simply increase the total fixing time accordingly, following the clearing time rule, and still end up with a fully fixed film.
Morte
I made up my mind back then after reading “Wollstein’s Column”. He wrote:
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-seri
Fixing
I have already written entire articles on fixing alone. I shall spare you a repetition of the merits of the two-bath fixing process and simply recommend this method once again for your negatives. The advantages are
- [font=arial, helvetica, sans-seri more thorough fixing and
- [font=arial, helvetica, sans-seri better use of the bath.
I’ve always had good results with it and see no reason
not to do it. After all, you don’t use any more fixer than with the simple method.
Tandemfahren
That’s right, hehe. You actually use less, as I said (it doesn’t make any difference price-wise, I know). I’m more concerned about disposal and the safety of the fixer.
If all the films come out of a virtually pristine bath, only roughly the same amount of dissolved silver needs to be washed out (namely practically none, which is better for the environment too).
The fewer variables, the better the process consistency. The extra manual effort is really negligible.
Of course, it’s true that there are other ways of doing it.
Best regards, Frank
Urnes
The amount of silver that gets washed out is always the same! No matter how fresh or old the bath is. Only the volume of fixer used changes, and the concentration of silver in the fixer. If you take the stuff to the recycling centre, it might be worth it, as quantities over 5 litres are considered commercial here. If you precipitate the silver beforehand, it doesn’t matter.
Regards, Sven.
Tandemfahren
I fill the silver myself, yes. I don’t trust the rubbish collectors one bit; you’re better off forgetting it.
With more silver in the solution, it’s more worthwhile to fill it up (I always fill a 10-litre canister).
So, to wrap up the ‘pottery crap’ once and for all: the amount of silver to be washed out isn’t constant; most of it stays in the fixer, after all.
And with a second bath that’s almost silver-free, the concentration in the film and in the bath is close to zero once equilibrium is reached. That’s what I meant.
Regards,
Frank
