spacemishka
Hello everyone,
Are there actually any fixers that don’t need to be disposed of via the BSR or similar services??
Best regards,
Peter
MirkoBoeddecker
Hi Peter,
Sure – you can simply pour away any fixer as long as you haven’t used it!
That’s roughly equivalent to the environmental hazard posed by drained pasta water (at the same dilution).
After use, once it has fixed the film, it contains dissolved silver salts.
THESE must not go into the sewage treatment plant, as they have an antibacterial effect and the plant needs bacteria to treat the water.
Furthermore, silver is a finite and valuable raw material. So it also makes a lot of sense to recover the silver.
We’ve always wanted to set up a collection point in the shop, but the authorities are once again shooting themselves in the foot by regulating the storage of ‘hazardous substances’ so excessively that just researching the matter sends a cold shiver down your spine (and you end up leaving it at that).
So: always hand in fixers separately and label them as silver-containing solutions / film fixers so that they are recycled.
Alternatively: drain off the silver, collect it and sell it.
Best regards,
Mirko
Morte
It’s particularly lovely when you’re standing at the BSR with your canisters and get to hear, in the finest Berlin dialect: “No hazardous waste today.”
It’s not as if they could just pop the two containers in the corner until they’ve been emptied and collected. “You’ll have to go somewhere else.” Sure, on a bike. So some things do end up in the bin after all, thanks to the brilliant hazardous waste disposal system in this country. Grrr.
MirkoBoeddecker
It’s particularly lovely when you’re standing at the BSR with your containers and get to hear, in the finest Berlin dialect: “No hazardous waste today.”
It’s not as if they could just pop the two containers in a corner until the bins have been emptied and collected. “They have to go somewhere else.” Sure, by bike. So some things do end up in the bin after all, thanks to the brilliant hazardous waste disposal system in this country. Grrr.
Yeah, they’ve got the same problem. You’re
not allowed
to store “hazardous materials”. Only in approved containers and only up to the maximum quantity applied for and authorised. If there’s even one litre more, strictly speaking, the whole operation has to be shut down.
Franco
Here in Erkrath, near Düsseldorf, this isn’t a problem, thankfully. The mobile waste collection unit comes round somewhere in the area at least once a month. When I asked whether I should separate the fixer and the developer, I was told not to. It’s a shame how often I read about the obstacles put in the way of photographers who want to dispose of their chemicals properly.
I know my way around measurement technology, not chemistry. That’s why nothing but wash water and Moersch Eco goes down the drain at my place. I’d be happy to pay for that, but here it’s free – and that’s a good thing. I believe that sometimes the costs of environmental damage are higher than the ‘revenue’.
Bonderer
In Hagen, they’ve sorted this out quite well too; they don’t want that sort of thing in the sewage treatment plant here, and it’s better to have something wrongly classified as hazardous waste than to have it end up in the sewage treatment plant.
Once I’ve collected enough, I take it to the waste-to-energy plant; that’s where the collection point is, and they’re quite relaxed about large quantities. 60–80 kg is no problem, but they hardly ever weigh it.
They used to collect it at the camera shops, but that’s been stopped. The shops had it collected faster than they could collect it themselves, so now it’s only at the central collection point. I try to find canisters on every corner, but sometimes I have to buy used ones too.
Canister Vertrieb is a good place to go here; one litre of Fix turns into five litres.
Franco
Have a go and ask at a petrol station or a garage. My chemical ends up in AdBlue canisters.
At our haulage firm, we’ve got loads of canisters of distilled water in the warehouse. I could ask if they need to be replaced every so often; if so, you could come and collect the empty ones in Halver.
Morte
I use so much distilled water myself that their 5-litre containers are enough for me.
The waste collection service usually offered to tip the whole lot straight into their huge vats, so I was then free of them again.
Bonderer
I can’t say exactly what sort of containers are involved here, but I wouldn’t trust those flimsy ones you get at DIY stores or similar places for distilled water with photochemical work – at least not for any length of time. I’ve seen too much to put my faith in them. I have containers at home for full canisters, and that’s the only way I transport them in the car. I once cleared out a lab where some madman had been buying supplies. Several hundred kilos of old chemicals, and the original canisters from Ilford, AGFA, Tetenal and bottles from various manufacturers were almost all more or less badly rotten and leaking. That really shook my confidence in the safety of plastic containers. However, the purchase date of that old junk was no longer known? But since then, I’ve only used proper canisters, even if they cost a bit.
Morte
There’s no hydrochloric acid in it. I haven’t had any problems for years.
Magirus
I’m not too worried about the shelf life of the water canisters.
I haven’t collected the chemicals in their pure form, but have diluted them.
The collection is taken to the collection point once or twice a year.
In our region, the Hanover area, you’re allowed to hand in up to 30 litres.
So there’s no need to pour it down the toilet.
Regards, Bernd
Wolfgg
Hello,
Why don’t you reprocess the fix and keep using it? You can extract the silver with very little effort. All you need is a stainless-steel container, a few graphite rods from a graphic design supply shop (available on eBay), a power source rated up to 5V and approx. 1A, and a motor for stirring (e.g. a drill on a cheap stand). We discussed this topic here once before:
http://forum.fotoimpex.de/index.php?showtopic=1853
Best regards
Bonderer
Well, I want to be able to buy from my supplier tomorrow as well. If he’s sold out, he’ll be out of business before you know it.
And who can guarantee that using a remanufactured Fix won’t cause long-term damage to my negatives? I’d rather have it new and fresh – it’s not exactly expensive anyway. And as for that fairy tale about the price of silver, why don’t you ask a reputable silversmith what he gets for his silver? Mine always laughs when I tell him things like that.
The high price of silver is a stock market price; the purchase price is well below that. It’s all nonsense.
I put a lot of effort into my photography, wrap my films in exquisite cameras from Leica, Nikon and so on, treat myself to the best lenses, only to then subject the films to some obscure fixer solution. No way. I only treat my films to the best care. I’m not stingy when it comes to that.
Wolfgg
Hello Analogue,
If you want to do it thoroughly, the tried-and-tested method is as follows:
- Pre-fix with old but not yet exhausted fixer, or recycled fixer; this fixer does the bulk of the work
- Post-fix briefly with completely fresh fixer, which only needs to remove small residues and therefore stays fresh for a long time.
This is the safest approach, especially for paper that is exposed to light all day.
The purpose of desilvering is not only to prepare the paper for reuse, but also because you can easily send desilvered fixer to the sewage treatment plant, thus saving yourself the trip to the disposal site. For me, that would be a 13 km journey, after all.
But to each their own.
Regards
?
CommodoreMan
Hi everyone,
What’s the best way to label a container of used fix, actually?
Ideally, what should be written on it to minimise confusion and unnecessary work for the waste disposal company?
By the way, our recycling centre accepts up to 5kg in total from private individuals free of charge.
Every additional kilo costs 1.25.
So I mustn’t collect too much ;).
Regards, Christian
Morte
With us, you don’t need any labelling at all. You just tell the waste disposal guy: ‘This is fixer’, and he tips it into the appropriate huge tank. The other tank is for developer – that’s all there is to it. Alternatively (if you no longer need the canister), I’ve also put the fixer containers in one corner and the developer in the other. They’ll sort it out from there.
Personally, I just write ‘Fix’ on the canister with a permanent marker, and a big ‘E’ on the other one. You shouldn’t labour under the illusion that they’re even remotely interested in the components of the solution.
Gast
Hello,
There is also the option of desilvering the old fixer using sodium dithionite. The solution can then be disposed of down the drain; the black sludge is silver.
spacemishka
I think I’ll just take it to the recycling centre... and I’d better check beforehand if it’s hazardous waste collection day :)
MirkoBoeddecker
That’s why I only pour washing-up water and Moersch Eco down the drain.
Moersch Eco should actually contain as little of that as Neutol ECO. At least, that’s what the safety data sheet says from a strictly legal point of view.
Both developers are as low in hazardous substances as possible, but anything that is developed in under 6 minutes is usually superadditive, which means that, in addition to ascorbic acid, there is another substance with redox potential. Although in the smallest possible quantity – that was the whole point, after all – it’s not entirely absent.
The big advantage for the authorities is the removal of storage and transport restrictions. Teachers are allowed to drive to the BSR in their own cars. Strictly speaking, you’re not allowed to do that (with concentrates from other developers). I know it sounds completely absurd now, but that’s actually the case.
The difference is: teachers have to stick to the rules.
Andreas1975
Hi Mirko
?
Let’s not start spreading urban legends here.
I deal with dangerous goods in my job. So I’d be interested to know what your statement is based on, that strictly speaking we private individuals aren’t allowed to transport these chemicals?
If you could give me a UN number for the chemicals, I’d be very grateful and would look it up in the ADR.
I haven’t been able to find a safety data sheet that lists a UN number yet.?
BTW, it’s actually the case that private individuals are exempt from the ADR if the quantities are standard commercial amounts and the containers are suitable for transport. Even fuel may be carried in a motor vehicle in quantities of up to 60 litres without labelling. The situation is different when crossing borders, but that’s a customs matter.
?
Regards
Andreas
