Transparency film/Kodachrome/ new edition

CPD · 2012-03-20T20:27:44+00:00

Hallo, wie bereits allenthalben bekannt, stellt Kodak die Produktion der Diafilme ein. Für mich eine größere Katastrophe! Ich benutzte zwar auch Fuji Filme,...

CPD

Hello, As is now widely known, Kodak is discontinuing the production of transparency film. For me, this is a major disaster! I do use Fuji film as well, but mostly Kodak. A question, mainly for Mirko: is there any possibility of producing a Kodachrome replica (as far as I know, Ferrania has done something similar in the past)? And in all formats? (135/120/PF)? I’m deliberately asking about Kodachrome and not Ektachrome! It goes without saying that producing a transparency film presents a whole different – and far more difficult – challenge than producing a black-and-white film! A developing lab, formerly known as a reversal lab, would also need to be set up. But is something like that even possible in principle? Ciao! CP

michael-kielgmxnet

Perhaps we could bring back the old multi-layer coating machine from the Film Museum in Wolfen ;-) No, seriously, I don’t think that would be feasible in terms of the effort involved, unless Kodak were to sell off the old Kodachrome coating machines at a bargain price.

thomas_l

The problem is that simply having a coating machine isn’t enough. You can already see how difficult it is to get the APX right, and a black-and-white film is technically much simpler than a colour film. And with Kodachrome, there’s the whole development process to contend with as well. So I tend to think that Kodachrome is well and truly finished, even though I enjoyed using it myself. There is, however, a thread on apug about someone who is trying to revive Kodachrome as part of a private project.... Best regards, Thomas

MirkoBoeddecker

That’s a good question. It ties in with my own thoughts on the subject. If I had to save colour photography, I’d give it a go with a 50–80 ASA three-emulsion transparency ;-) However, as long as Fuji continues to produce excellent colour films, my project would probably be doomed to failure, because my 3-emulsion film would be considerably more expensive than Fuji’s and, at the same time, technically inferior in most respects. Best regards, Mirko

StefanCaspari

That’s a good question. It ties in with my own thoughts on the subject. If I had to save colour photography, I’d give it a go with a 50–80 ASA three-emulsion transparency ;-) However, as long as Fuji continues to produce excellent colour films, my project would probably be doomed to failure, because my 3-emulsion film would be considerably more expensive than Fuji’s and, at the same time, technically inferior in most respects. Best regards, Mirko

Hello Mirko, It would make sense to reissue the old Agfachrome 50S and -L. That would have the advantage that the development process is relatively straightforward, it comes in a ready-to-use kit, and it even works at 24 degrees. Apart from that, this film was a dream. Best regards: Stefan Caspari

MirkoBoeddecker

Hello Stefan, Unfortunately, it’s no longer possible to reproduce old formulations in the field of photochemistry. Ninety per cent of the raw materials used are no longer available, and substituting them is more complicated than simply developing a new formula from scratch. But your contribution is important for another reason: you are familiar with these older films and can confirm that there was good colour film material available even with the technology of 30 or 40 years ago. Not quite as spectacular as today’s, but perfectly usable and with its own character. Moreover, in terms of fidelity to the original, it was sometimes even better (e.g. Kodachrome). You gain a lot by sacrificing a little speed. The 50s efke, with its 1952 manufacturing method (“toss it in the cauldron and off you go”), beats every 100, 200 and 400 ISO technology leader when properly exposed (and flawlessly processed/produced). The “speed race” among film manufacturers was driven by the fact that this criterion was easy to market. Everyone tried to achieve higher speed to prove their technological leadership and position themselves in the market. Customers could suddenly take photographs under artificial light, which opened up a vast new range of applications. Unfortunately, amateur cameras immediately became less light-sensitive, and manufacturers optimised their profit margins (the less light-sensitive the lens, the easier and cheaper it is to build), which then turned the supposed advantage into a disadvantage – but that’s another story. Today, the situation is different. Anyone who wants to take photos as quickly and easily as possible in low light will achieve results with the new digital sensors that no film can match. Film really comes into its own in daylight. Besides, you can certainly take photos under artificial lighting with 50 ISO. That’s what tripods are for ;-) Best regards, Mirko

KlausWehner

Yes, that would be a dream come true! A new Kodakchrome... Personally, however, I really do think this project is too ambitious to be realised under the current circumstances. And I’m not just thinking about the commercial aspects. The exotic chemical technology will be a major problem. There is little literature on the subject – much of it will have to be reinvented... But of course, one must also think the unthinkable. Now is exactly the right time for that! In recent years, I have repeatedly looked into Kodakchrome – though only to develop it into a black-and-white slide. I think back wistfully to the old Agfachrome 50S! I remember that the film used to cost about 10 DM back then. The Kodakchrome was a bit more expensive. But that was before the ‘stinginess is cool’ era. Good quality at a reasonable price. Yes, this ‘sensitivity craze’ in analogue photography is a terrible development! There are some nasty excesses among certain suppliers – but apparently that’s what the customers want. No one seems to complain when a film sold with a nominal sensitivity of 400 ASA actually only has 100–125 ASA. On the contrary! Then people go looking for a miracle booster developer... I’ve been advocating for realistic sensitivity ratings for years. That would help everyone – and suddenly the results from your own darkroom would be significantly better too. But that’s another topic altogether! Warm regards from Paderborn Klaus

CPD

If I had to save colour photography, I’d give it a go with a 50–80 ASA three-emulsion transparency ;-)

As far as I’m concerned, it could even be ISO 12/12 or ISO 25/15. But that probably wouldn’t be commercially viable.

However, as long as Fuji continues to produce excellent colour films, my project would probably be doomed to failure, because my 3-emulsion film would be considerably more expensive than Fuji’s and, at the same time, inferior in most respects by technical standards.

I have a rather ambivalent relationship with Fuji. Sure, I quite like using Velvia for certain purposes, but Provia has a slight magenta cast under certain lighting conditions. We had a discussion about this on the Hasselblad Forum the other day. In any case, this applies to the RDP III from 2003; I don’t yet know about the current version – it may be that the film has been modified in the meantime. For professional purposes – which is why I, too, used the Agfa 50S and 50L and their successors until they were discontinued – I needed a film with the most neutral colour reproduction possible. Judging by the outcry in the German and, above all, American forums, there would be nothing to stop the introduction of a Kodachrome derivative. But presumably the outcry is once again louder than the willingness to actually buy such a product. Though I could, of course, be wrong. Ciao!

Steffen

That’s a good question. It ties in with my own thoughts on the subject. If I had to save colour photography, I’d give it a go with a 50–80 ASA three-emulsion transparency ;-) However, as long as Fuji continues to produce excellent colour films, my project would probably be doomed to failure, because my 3-emulsion film would be considerably more expensive than Fuji’s and, at the same time, inferior in most respects by technical standards. Best regards, Mirko

How about saving or reviving colour reversal paper, now that Ilfochrome will soon be a thing of the past? Would it be possible to produce colour reversal paper that isn’t as extremely expensive as Ilfochrome?

KlausWehner

Sorry! Technical glitch! Please delete.

KlausWehner

Yes, a new Ilfochrome – that would be brilliant too! At the moment, many high-quality products are disappearing. These products are either not being replaced at all, or are being replaced by inferior alternatives. (There are some welcome exceptions: e.g. ADOX MCC/MCP) I’ve already looked into the chemistry of the Ilfochrome process to some extent. But producing a new paper is a whole different ball game! I’d only consider that possible if one could really replicate the Ilfochrome production process exactly. I think a complete restart is unrealistic. But quality comes at a price. Unfortunately, (almost) nobody is willing to pay that price anymore. Not at Ilford – and probably not at Impex either. That is precisely where the problem lies: quality is no longer universally demanded – and there is too little willingness to pay a fair price for it. A broad shift in attitudes would be necessary. Poor conditions for an Adoxchrome. Unfortunately! Warm regards from Paderborn Klaus