TiMo
I’m currently getting to grips with negative development for the first time.
I’m still a bit puzzled by the following:
I pick out a developer and film on Digitaltruth. Then, for example, I’m given a dilution of 1+4 and a development time of 5.5 minutes. Alternatively, a dilution of 1+9 and a development time of 10.5 minutes.
Will this affect the result?
I also have this question:
If, for example, I perform an exposure on an Acros 100 film at ISO 80, and all the developer’s specifications refer to Acros at ISO 100, do I need to perform longer development (as I’m only using ISO 80) or should I follow the specifications for ISO 100?
I know that, generally speaking, you should/must rely on your own experience, but I would still be interested to know if there tends to be a rule of thumb.
bernhardmangelsgmxde
I’m currently getting to grips with developing negatives for the first time.
The following is still a bit of a mystery to me:
I pick out a developer and film from Digitaltruth. Then, for example, I have a dilution of 1+4 and a development time of 5.5 minutes. Alternatively, a dilution of 1+9 and a development time of 10.5 minutes.
Will this affect the result?
It also depends on which developer is used. Generally speaking, I’d say that with a higher dilution (in this case 1+9), the result tends to be more sharp, but the grain coarser.
I also have this question:
If, for example, I perform an exposure on an Acros 100 film at ISO 80. And all the developer’s specifications refer to Acros at ISO 100, do I then need to perform longer development (as I only used ISO 80) or should I follow the specifications for ISO 100?
If the exposure was made at 80 instead of 100 ASA, develop for a shorter (not longer) time. As this is just a third of a stop, it doesn’t need to be much shorter than the time specified for 100; you could probably just use the time for 100 without noticing much difference.
Apart from time and temperature, other factors also have a certain influence: how you agitate the solution, how you measure the time, how quickly you pour the developer in and out, how you (or your camera) control the exposure when taking the shot, what type of enlarger is used for enlarging, what paper is used, and which developer is then used to perform the development.
If I were you, I’d simply try shortening the development time by about 10% and see what gradient is needed when enlarging to achieve good results. If that’s generally significantly harder than Grade 2, I’d shorten the development time slightly; if the tendency is towards Grade 1 (or even 0), I’d extend the development time. If you can enlarge most of it well at grade 2–2.5, then everything is fine.
sputnik
Quote:
"If I were you, I’d simply try shortening the development time by about 10% and see what gradient is needed when enlarging to get good results. If it’s generally significantly harder than Grade 2, I’d shorten the development time a little; if it tends towards Grade 1 (or even 0), I’d extend the development time. If you can enlarge most of them well at grade 2–2.5, then everything is fine.”
Sorry, but it’s actually the other way round, as it’s well known that negatives become harder as the development time is extended.
I also find that the preferred gradient is largely a matter of taste, and that the much-touted target gradient of 2 is not the only way to happiness. I, for example, usually enlarge at G3 +/-.
If I recall correctly, gradient 3 used to correspond to ‘normal’ and gradient 2 to ‘special’ at Agfa. But as I said, I consider this a matter of personal preference, especially given that 5 different papers have 5 different gradation levels, meaning that grade 2 is sometimes 2.5 and sometimes 1.5 relative to the reference paper.
But this is just my very personal opinion.
Best regards,
S.
Edit: Spelling mistake
bernhardmangelsgmxde
I wasn’t actually talking about an exclusive path to perfection; it was more of a tip for a beginner. What I mean is: develop your film in such a way that you can work well with the paper you’re using, whilst still having enough margin to account for overexposure or similar issues. With a grade of 2.5, you have (purely in terms of the numbers) the most margin for adjustment in both directions. If I develop my films so that a gradient of 4 is the norm, I quickly run out of leeway...
Incidentally, we share the view that longer development times lead to harder negatives – have I got something mixed up here?
sputnik
Hi Namir,
My comments about putting the 'royal road' via G2 into perspective weren't directed at you specifically, but were simply my personal view on a dogma that seems to be becoming entrenched. Generally speaking, I’m slowly getting the impression that everyone (by which I mean: the few people who still go to Duka :-)) is just stubbornly trying to achieve whatever standards are preached to them in books like ‘Way Beyond Monochrom’ (not that I’m trying to slag off this undoubtedly very informative book!). Mind you, this sentence isn’t directed at you either, but simply describes MY FEELING in general. I’m more of a believer in the old adage: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Though studying good literature is, of course, part of that.
And regarding gradient, I have another serious question: have you ever printed a photo at grade 00 or 0 that you could look at afterwards, or even show to others?
Best regards,
S.
Urnes
Hi Timo,
With the settings you’ve described, you can’t go far wrong. Of course, that’s assuming the film has been properly exposed. You don’t have any reference material yet. If you find anything wrong with the negatives, you can start fine-tuning then.
Best regards, Sven.
TiMo
Great, thanks for the replies. That’s exactly what I wanted to know: “With a higher dilution (in this case 1+9), the result tends to be more sharp, but the grain coarser.”
I’m currently using Fuji Acros 100 film and Kodak T-Max developer. But actually, I was mainly interested in the general trend.
One thing is still unclear to me:
“as it is well known that the negatives become harder as the development time increases.”
Does “harder” mean greater contrast?
Unfortunately, I’m not quite at the stage of making prints yet. I’m still short of space and, above all, an affordable, second-hand enlarger. I am, however, already studying the theory a bit.
Regards
Tim
piu58
One thing is still unclear to me:
"as we know, the negatives become 'harder' as the development time increases."
Does 'harder' mean greater contrast?
Yes. Put simply, the underlying effect is as follows: where there is nothing, even prolonged development will not produce anything. This means that deep shadows hardly change at all with extended development.
Highlights, on the other hand, build up as far as the film’s maximum density allows. This increases the difference between shadows and highlights, and consequently the contrast.
bernhardmangelsgmxde
Unfortunately, I’m not quite ready to start printing yet. What’s missing[...] is, above all, an affordable second-hand enlarger;
I recently bought an Axomat 4a at auction for 8 (!) euros... well, there was the postage on top of that, so the problem should be solvable. I’m more likely to let “not enough space” slide. I’ve already set up darkrooms in two very small bathrooms (one was 2m² for the dry and wet areas; the other bathroom was even smaller, so the dry area was moved into the hallway... a hybrid solution if need be).
TiMo
When it comes to bargains like that, I always look on with envy at America and Germany. But I don’t live there; I live in Tokyo. The cheapest one I’ve found so far was second-hand for 400
bernhardmangelsgmxde
All right then, Tokyo. There seems to be a fair bit of demand for second-hand enlargers. It would make sense to import second-hand enlargers from Germany...
TiMo
There seems to be a fair bit of demand for second-hand enlargers. It would make sense to import second-hand enlargers from Germany...
I mean, the opposite is actually the case. It seems as though hardly anything is moving there anymore. The high prices don’t suggest there’s much demand. The enlargers are just sitting in a corner of the shop gathering dust.
bernhardmangelsgmxde
Are there no online auctions? Buying from a retailer in Germany is often tricky and quite expensive (at least when it comes to cameras)... If in doubt, why not bid for an Aspecta Adjutar or something similar the next time you visit Germany... there should still be room for it in a flat in Tokyo.
TiMo
There are online auctions, but even there you rarely find anything under 400
Urnes
Hi Timo,
1. You can always go smaller. So a 6x7 works with 35mm, but not the other way round. The same goes for lenses. 80mm for 67, 50mm for 35. 80mm also works with 35mm film because of the large image circle, though with a smaller reproduction ratio. Lenses usually have a 39mm thread (at least for these negative sizes) and can generally be swapped as well. For the different formats, you’ll need the appropriate negative masks/holders in the negative stage.
2. Filters. It depends on what you want to do. Colour filters work for colour and b/w. Pure gradation filters are only for b/w. For both, you’ll also need mixing boxes in the enlarger to mix the light, ideally suited to the negative format. Soft light. No such harsh edges in the exposure and fewer problems with dust. Alternatively, condenser units if you only want to do b/w. The light is concentrated through two lenses; if you’re lucky, there’ll be a filter drawer for the gradation filters. Hard light, greater sharpness.
3. Light sources. There are plenty. From opal bulbs to low-voltage halogen lamps. The bulbs tend to blow if it gets too hot inside the head. Spare parts are more likely to be electrical components for units with a mixing head and transformer. Condenser units are simple in design and virtually indestructible. Lucky comes from China too, doesn’t it? I haven’t seen one yet, anyway. Fujimoto makes very good units, especially for 4x5" at the moment.
Regards, Sven.
TiMo
Thanks for the crash course, Sven.
I’m really only interested in black and white.
The manufacturer seems to be Fujimoto and the model name is ‘Lucky + a combination of numbers’. Made in Japan. I come across this manufacturer quite often.
Here’s an example:
http://page3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c301640420
I’m just worried that I’ll buy something and then realise that, for example, the 35mm negative holder is missing and is virtually impossible to find now.
Are the bulbs compatible with the various manufacturers?
Regards
Tim
Urnes
Thanks for the crash course, Sven.
I’m really only interested in black and white.
The manufacturer is apparently Fujimoto and the model name is ‘Lucky + a combination of numbers’. Made in Japan. I come across this manufacturer quite often.
Here’s an example:
http://page3.auction...tion/c301640420
I’m just worried that I’ll buy something and then realise that, for example, the 35mm negative holder is missing and is virtually impossible to find now.
Are the bulbs compatible with the various manufacturers?
Regards
Tim
The Fujimoto doesn’t look half bad. It’s certainly a sturdy piece of kit. As for the bulbs, condenser units actually always have E27 sockets – in other words, standard European light bulb sockets. I can’t say, however, how expensive the bulbs are at the moment or where the best place to get them is. The market here has dried up a bit at the moment, now that 60-watt bulbs are no longer available in the EU. You need to be careful with the voltage; I’ve seen that the Fujimoto is 100 V. Do you have 100-volt power in Japan? If so, you could also look for an American Beseler. In any case, you need one with the correct voltage. And make sure the unit has a filter drawer for the multigrade filter under the lens; it’s not much fun with a holder. You can get film filters for gradation adjustment from our host. As for the lens, only the best will do. Of course, it can be second-hand – no problem. But there are significant differences; even Schneider and Rodenstock used to have a budget range, and you can see the difference.
Regards, Sven.
TiMo
Thanks for the replies, Sven.
100V is fine.
Unfortunately, I can find almost nothing here but enlargers from Japanese companies: Fujimoto, Fuji and LPL. I haven’t come across any Meopta, Durst or Beseler models here yet. Unfortunately, I can’t find much information on the equipment on offer either.
I did manage to find a Fuji F690MF. It’s apparently suitable for negatives up to 6x9.
So now the question for me is: can I modify the 6x9 holder without too much effort so that it also fits 6x7, 6x4.5 and 35mm, or is that a lost cause? I can’t find any pictures of the negative holder for this model.
Tandemfahren
Tim,
You have a private message.
Frank
Urnes
With negative holders, the film path is the same width as the film. So you can fit 6x7 or 645 film into a 6x9 holder. The body usually has adjustable mask strips to define the frame. However, 35mm film will bend in such a large holder. You really should have a dedicated holder for that. It’s no problem if a universal glass stage is included. You can then load anything into it. The downside, however, is that you always have to keep the glass clean and may have more issues with dust, but you get better flatness in return.
Regards, Sven.
